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I have been steering people toward the wiki more and more, recently, and this is obviously a huge deterrent. [[User:Dazyk|Dazyk]] ([[User talk:Dazyk|talk]]) 20:38, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
I have been steering people toward the wiki more and more, recently, and this is obviously a huge deterrent. [[User:Dazyk|Dazyk]] ([[User talk:Dazyk|talk]]) 20:38, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
:I'm aware of the issue, and looking into ways to address it. Rather than instruct them to look at page histories, it's better to encourage them to sign up for accounts. Even if they never edit the wiki, signing in will alleviate the problem and save them way more time in the long run. Ultimately, I want to fix the issue, but until I get my bot ported over to this wiki, I don't think I'm going to be able to do it. Nihimon has a bot, and perhaps he can use it to run the {{xt|touch}} script to fix the problem (as I think that will solve it).—[[File:Paizo_Publishing, LLC.png|16px]] [[User:Yoda8myhead|Yoda8myhead]] ([[User talk:Yoda8myhead|talk]]) 20:49, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

Revision as of 20:49, 18 October 2014

Hey, my wife and I made some significant edits to the Attacks page. I'd very much appreciate your assessment. I'm glad I'm a programmer, because it really helped me in formatting, for example, the AttackFeatDetail Template.

PS - Is it okay for me to clear out the User talk: Nihimon page once the conversation's past its prime?

PPS - Is there a way to rename files? Is there a way to include partial path names? I'm thinking that "Armor" as a global file name is a little too generic...

Final question(s) for the night: Is there any way to have the detail entries read from a web service or database? Do y'all host a database I can populate? Can I set it up to read from the database hosted by The Seventh Veil? Copy-and-paste works, but it's going to be a huge pain to make bulk edits in the future.

I lied. If you look at what I did with the Passive Feats, you'll see I have a single entry with summary information that you can click to get to the detail page that lists the effects for each level. My wife is being awesome and doing the copy-and-paste for all the detail entries, but I'm wondering if there's some way I can easily access the header record so that I can do something kind of like what I did for the Attack Feat detail entries.

Okay, I'm a horrible liar :) Is there a way to script the creation of files? -- This unsigned post was made by Nihimon. Please sign all posts with ~~~~.

I'll give them a look. I've been at Gen Con for the past week and am now sick at home with my worst case of con crud to date. Sorry for the lack of communication.
RE: PS — It's generally best to keep discussions on talk pages organized by headers to keep a record of all discussions. Also, be sure to sign all posts with ~~~~ to leave a better paper trail and so others who know they're talking to.
RE: PPS — Just move the article to the new name and leave a redirect behind. Keep in mind that the simpler an article name is, the easier it is to link to it internally. Complex article titles make for a very messy wikilinking structure.
RE: final question — I don't understand your question.
RE: lie — Mediawiki software doesn't support external database interactions to the best of my knowledge. You likely possess more technical knowledge than I do, so I suggest doing some research online to see how you can make it work. There are a ton of MediaWiki extensions that might allow for what you want to do, but I don't know what that would be or what to look for. Best of luck.
RE: horrible lie — Yup. Pywikipediabot can do it really, really easily. Just let me know if you need assistance setting it up (I recommend using a different account, like NihimonBot, so that it can be flagged as a bot without affecting your primary account. —Paizo Publishing, LLC.png Yoda8myhead (talk) 19:39, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

I see you're busy working on the PassiveFeatDetail template. I very much appreciate the help. I'm worried that I'm going to lose track of these kinds of communications if they stay in the User talk pages, since I didn't have any way to see that you had replied here until I came over to thank you for working on the template. Would you mind sharing your email address with me? For a brief summary, I've struck gold :) I found DotNetWikiBot at and was able to make a direct update to a page here (Downburst if you want to look) to add a comment to the page from my program. That's enough of a proof of concept for me that I'm confident I can mass-create the data pages we'll need, and update them in bulk as necessary. I'm really excited about that, but I'd like to talk over some ideas on how to organize the pages. Nihimon (talk) 23:08, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

I also want to encourage you not to worry about trying to break the data out. I'll handle that in my program, and extracting the keywords, bonuses, effects, etc. is at the top of my list. Nihimon (talk) 23:26, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Standard Template Infrastructure

This is actually something Decius and I were working on. I agree we don't want to be working at cross-purposes, so it would be really fantastic if we could get together on TeamSpeak or something to discuss this. There's a bit of extra data I need from Stephen, namely things like the Slot (Feature, Armor, Defensive, Reactive) for the Passive Feats, but I really don't think we need him to format the data; I can do that just fine.

I've worked out a proof-of-concept where I can have a "Data Template" that includes all the data we have on a particular entity. The Data Template would accept a Template Name parameter and simply pass the data on to the named Template. I'm reasonably confident I can even include all the data that has a consistent format in the same Data Template file, and use conditional logic to control which "rows" get forwarded on to the named Template.

My main goal is being able to do bulk updates to the Data Templates when the need arises without overwriting any user-entered text. Nihimon (talk) 14:45, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

I will be on TS tonight starting around 6:30 PM Central. I expect Decius will be around then as well. Server address is Nihimon (talk) 14:48, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

I'm not seeing it now, but did you say you were going to get the Parser Functions Extension installed? I've tried a few things using #if, but they're not working and I think it's because it's not treating #if as a keyword. Nihimon (talk) 16:16, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Indeed we might be working in opposite directions; a key goal that Nihimon and I have is that it should be easy to make automated updates to the game mechanics once the new data is in. That basically requires that there be a data element somewhere that isn't intended to be formatted for or edited by users, and everything else needs to use that.
The ideal solution would be to have several templates that accepted the name of a feat as a parameter and output either a block or a table row containing that the relevant information from that feat's data page. The problem we encountered with that is that templates apparently cannot accept parameters that do that. (The use case would be something along the lines of "Template:Summary|Acid splash", with the Summary template describing the things we want on the summary, and able to pull those from the machine-writable data page for every feat.)
The hack solution that we happened upon would be making each feat's data page -be- a template that starts with a reference to another template; to display the summary information block for Acid Splash would then be "Template:Acid Splash|Summary", with each feat being a template that listed all of the information from the feat, and the Summary template parsing that for the information appropriate for the summary.
In any case, it is not an acceptable or sustainable solution to have to selectively update a large number of pages for each feat updated; When e.g. Acid Splash changes cooldown, we cannot have to update every page that displays information about the cooldown of Acid Splash, but we can make parse the information into an arbitrary format. Decius (talk) 04:06, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
Actually, I think I have the Data Template figured out. It will take two parameters, one is the name of another Template to send the Data to, and the other is an Expression that will be evaluated to determine whether or not to send a particular row to that Template. This should only require that the Parser Functions be installed and enabled. Nihimon (talk) 04:49, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Data Templates and Filters

I have a working example of this at Nihimon Test. I'm quite happy with the results, and am going to start building up some Data pages. This solution should allow us to bulk replace the Data Templates and Filter Templates without impacting any of the user edits that occurred in the main pages. I'm still a bit concerned about users making changes to the Data Templates directly, but I suppose we can deal with it if it happens. Nihimon (talk) 20:36, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

Categories & Keywords

So what is the best way of doing Categories in a way that clicking on the Divine keyword for example, shows everything that has that keyword (weapon, armor, etc.)? Without too much overlapping of course.

Here is an example of what I am trying to do so far: --NytCrawlr (talk) 03:35, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

--Basically I am trying to make it too where when you click on any Keyword, it can lead you to a category of equipment that has that Keyword. In this case trying to make Diivine show Battle Focus without also throwing the Divine page into a Category it really doesn't belong. --NytCrawlr (talk) 19:17, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

PFO wiki links to PF wiki

Hello! I'm new here, and was asking the others (Nihimon, NytCrawler) what the policy was on having some of our links connect back to the main Pathfinder Wiki. For example, on the Elf page in PFO, we briefly mention Darklands and EarthFall; is it ok for us to link back to the PF Wiki pages for those topics? Or should we create an entirely new page? Obviously, for the pages where we want to add specific info that relates to the game, we will have our own pages, but it seems like a lot of work to replicate pages that already exist on the main site just for the sake of background info. Let me know! Dazyk (talk) 00:56, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

New Data Format from Stephen

I am very interested in understanding this, and perhaps offering some suggestions. So far, I've generally taken the attitude that I would work with whatever Stephen gave us as-is. I'm very curious how you would solve the general problem of having a page for all the Cantrips, and then wanting a page for each specific Cantrip. Would you simply copy the data out of the "All Cantrips" page for the specific Cantrip? What would the standard process be when sweeping changes are made? Also, there is a great deal of data in Lee's spreadsheets that is not formatted at all for the wiki. Are there any plans for that to be presented in a wiki format?

I should add that I can probably output the data in any way you want without requiring any extra work from Stephen. In fact, it would be extremely helpful if you could take a lead role in helping us get over the first hurdle. Specifically, I'd like to take the example I used above about having one page that lists all the Cantrips and then a page for each individual Cantrip and work through the special problems that are presented one at a time. Nihimon (talk) 21:41, 14 October 2014 (UTC)


Do we have to have all the main sections of the wiki be 'Portal:' pages? I have been creating pages and doing some basic restructuring of the layout, and think it would be so much easier to have 'Character' page instead of 'Portal:Character'. Can you tell me what the reasoning is behind this decision? Thanks! Dazyk (talk) 05:51, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

The main reasoning is that there are so many topics that relate character, or mechanics, or history, or geography, that each of those articles will end up being more of an index than anything else. It's easy for indices to take the form of walls of text, which make them difficult to read. In general, each article on the wiki should cover one topic, and link to additional topics as independent articles. Related topics should be covered by an overview article that incorporates the top-level elements of each sub-article, and these top-level articles should be featured on the related portal.
Frex, the mechanics portal will likely contain a section on feats, one on race, one on class, etc. These will give someone interested in an overview of mechanics on the whole an overview of what sorts of mechanics are involved, and point them in a visual way toward more details on whichever specific topic they're most interested in.
Ultimately, we don't have to have portals now, but will likely want them at a later time. If we lack sufficient information at the moment to fill portals, then just make them normal articles. But my experience has been that pfw:Portal:Geography is way more useful than an article simply listing topics covered by geography would be.—Paizo Publishing, LLC.png Yoda8myhead (talk) 19:59, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
take a look at the main page as I have altered it. My plan was to have Character, Gear, Environment, Economy, Combat, and User Interface be my main 'portals.' Everything in the game falls in to one of these categories, and I feel like that will be the easiest way for someone to find the information that they are looking for. Each of those is then broken in to subcategories (ex in Character: Roles, Races, Ability Scores, Skills, Achievements, etc.). So I guess I am already pretty-much using portals; I guess my main concern was having to code everything [[Portal:Character]] rather than the easier [[Character]], especially when linking to sections et cetera. Dazyk (talk) 00:00, 16 October 2014 (UTC)


We are still experiencing the bug wherein users who are not logged in to the wiki cannot access updated page information unless they navigate to the View History tab and click on the most recent version.

I have been steering people toward the wiki more and more, recently, and this is obviously a huge deterrent. Dazyk (talk) 20:38, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

I'm aware of the issue, and looking into ways to address it. Rather than instruct them to look at page histories, it's better to encourage them to sign up for accounts. Even if they never edit the wiki, signing in will alleviate the problem and save them way more time in the long run. Ultimately, I want to fix the issue, but until I get my bot ported over to this wiki, I don't think I'm going to be able to do it. Nihimon has a bot, and perhaps he can use it to run the touch script to fix the problem (as I think that will solve it).—Paizo Publishing, LLC.png Yoda8myhead (talk) 20:49, 18 October 2014 (UTC)