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:: Continuing that line of thought, I'm very curious if you have any ideas on how to organize the data in a way that we can include various bits and pieces of it in different places.  For example, there will be a list of Effects for each Attack Feat, and it would be nice to display them in full in a list on that Feat's page, but it would also be nice to get a short summary of them (just the Effect name without the modifiers and conditionals) for inclusion in the tables where we list similar Feats, so that folks can see at a glance what Effects the Attack applies, and what States it capitalizes on.
 
:: Continuing that line of thought, I'm very curious if you have any ideas on how to organize the data in a way that we can include various bits and pieces of it in different places.  For example, there will be a list of Effects for each Attack Feat, and it would be nice to display them in full in a list on that Feat's page, but it would also be nice to get a short summary of them (just the Effect name without the modifiers and conditionals) for inclusion in the tables where we list similar Feats, so that folks can see at a glance what Effects the Attack applies, and what States it capitalizes on.
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== Collaboration ==
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I have been hoping to have more of a collaborative discussion about this project here.  I feel very good about the process I have in place to read, parse, and normalize the data the devs share with us, but I have some questions about best practices for making that data available on the wiki in a way that ensures we can make bulk updates when that data changes.  If anyone with significant wiki experience would be willing to participate, I'm confident we could move forward.  My instinct is to pick a relatively simple starting point (Cantrips) and simply work through the challenges at each level.  Once that is done, I am reasonably confident we could replicate that general process elsewhere with less hand-holding.
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 +
* 1. What is the best practice for making the exact same data available in both a list and as a single element?
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:: My initial attempts to solve this problem started with the list, and tried to create methods to extract individual items from that list.  The advantages of this approach is that it would have allowed ad hoc grouping of similar items by filtered categories, so that users would have been free to create templates that filtered information from a variety of sources with confidence that their efforts would reflect up-to-date data when new data was published.  The major disadvantage is that it seemed to break the wiki server.  I don't have enough experience with wikis to really understand what happened, but there was a very clear correlation between my writing these data files and the wiki performance getting radically worse.  Without assistance, and unable to solve these problems on my own, I abandoned this approach.
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:: Another option that occurs to me is to have the data written only for the individual items, and have all the lists simply reference the individual data.  The major disadvantage of this approach is that the groups must be defined ahead of time so that the process that writes the wiki pages can write updated group lists when the data changes; any ad hoc groupings that are created by users will be stale, and likely to include bad data (for example, if an item is removed from the game but not removed from the ad hoc list, or more likely if a new item or feat is added to the game).
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:: The least attractive option to me is to simply copy the data into both places, but if there are compelling reasons why this is actually a reasonable way of doing it, I'm open to it.
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* 2. How can we support ad hoc groupings of similar items without creating a fragile system that will require user-intervention when new updates are available?  Or, is that requirement for user-intervention a problem worth avoiding?
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* 3. Am I wrong to try to separate the data from the user contributions?  This is a fundamental assumption I'm  making, but it's based on my experience working with data, not on any experience working with wikis.  If it's wrong, I'm open to hearing that and trying to change the way I think about this probject.

Revision as of 14:39, 22 October 2014

Mass deletions

Is there a way to delete a large number of files at once without having to manually click Delete on each page? There are some leftover artifacts from prior attempts that I'd like to clean up. Nihimon (talk) 22:50, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

I can do that with my bot, but I'll need to get it set up on PFO wiki, as it currently only works on the main wiki.—Paizo Publishing, LLC.png Yoda8myhead (talk) 23:25, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
I can do it with my bot as well, but was wondering if there was an easier way. I'll handle it. Nihimon (talk) 23:26, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

I'm using my actual account since the nihimon-bot account doesn't have Delete permission. If someone could fix that, I would appreciate it. Nihimon (talk) 00:03, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

As an admin you can make other accounts admins by editing their account privileges, but I'll take care of it in this case. —Paizo Publishing, LLC.png Yoda8myhead (talk) 00:07, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

Broke things

Some things are going to be temporarily broken. I'll have them fixed tonight. Nihimon (talk) 00:10, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

Tables generated by category?

Is it possible to use Categories to put all the Feats that are categorized as Cantrips into a Table? Nihimon (talk) 14:37, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

As far as I know, it is not.—Paizo Publishing, LLC.png Yoda8myhead (talk) 20:28, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
Continuing that line of thought, I'm very curious if you have any ideas on how to organize the data in a way that we can include various bits and pieces of it in different places. For example, there will be a list of Effects for each Attack Feat, and it would be nice to display them in full in a list on that Feat's page, but it would also be nice to get a short summary of them (just the Effect name without the modifiers and conditionals) for inclusion in the tables where we list similar Feats, so that folks can see at a glance what Effects the Attack applies, and what States it capitalizes on.

Collaboration

I have been hoping to have more of a collaborative discussion about this project here. I feel very good about the process I have in place to read, parse, and normalize the data the devs share with us, but I have some questions about best practices for making that data available on the wiki in a way that ensures we can make bulk updates when that data changes. If anyone with significant wiki experience would be willing to participate, I'm confident we could move forward. My instinct is to pick a relatively simple starting point (Cantrips) and simply work through the challenges at each level. Once that is done, I am reasonably confident we could replicate that general process elsewhere with less hand-holding.

  • 1. What is the best practice for making the exact same data available in both a list and as a single element?
My initial attempts to solve this problem started with the list, and tried to create methods to extract individual items from that list. The advantages of this approach is that it would have allowed ad hoc grouping of similar items by filtered categories, so that users would have been free to create templates that filtered information from a variety of sources with confidence that their efforts would reflect up-to-date data when new data was published. The major disadvantage is that it seemed to break the wiki server. I don't have enough experience with wikis to really understand what happened, but there was a very clear correlation between my writing these data files and the wiki performance getting radically worse. Without assistance, and unable to solve these problems on my own, I abandoned this approach.
Another option that occurs to me is to have the data written only for the individual items, and have all the lists simply reference the individual data. The major disadvantage of this approach is that the groups must be defined ahead of time so that the process that writes the wiki pages can write updated group lists when the data changes; any ad hoc groupings that are created by users will be stale, and likely to include bad data (for example, if an item is removed from the game but not removed from the ad hoc list, or more likely if a new item or feat is added to the game).
The least attractive option to me is to simply copy the data into both places, but if there are compelling reasons why this is actually a reasonable way of doing it, I'm open to it.
  • 2. How can we support ad hoc groupings of similar items without creating a fragile system that will require user-intervention when new updates are available? Or, is that requirement for user-intervention a problem worth avoiding?
  • 3. Am I wrong to try to separate the data from the user contributions? This is a fundamental assumption I'm making, but it's based on my experience working with data, not on any experience working with wikis. If it's wrong, I'm open to hearing that and trying to change the way I think about this probject.